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Date:	11/4/99 10:23:42 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Friday, November 5 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1310<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
Re: Violent Outlet (Was Re: A Day of Peace) #KEYBOARD ALERT!<BR>
Re: Dragon Magazine Archive<BR>
Re: Diplomacy - I don't have any.... <BR>
Re: Solomani Rim data and CT LBB errata<BR>
Re: Moslems in space...<BR>
Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
Re: Glitches after maintenance<BR>
Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
Re: Diplomacy - I don't have any....<BR>
Re: Solomani Rim data and CT LBB errata<BR>
Re: Moslems in space...<BR>
Re: Dragon Magazine Archive<BR>
Re: A Well-Regulated Militia (new thread title)<BR>
George Alec Effinger<BR>
Errata in CT<BR>
Re: Was something or other now Language!<BR>
RE: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space (Was: Re: [OT] Cultural Differences)<BR>
Re: Violent Outlet (Was Re: A Day of Peace)<BR>
Re: Common Weaponry (was RE: [OT] One Day In Peace)<BR>
Re: Common Weaponry (was RE: [OT] One Day In Peace)<BR>
Re: Border Guards<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 02:52:24 -0000<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: Alan Bradley <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Date: 05 November 1999 01:42<BR>
Subject: Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
>A thought:  does anyone know much about the role the Chinese played in<BR>
>WWII?  How much of the Japanese military did they keep busy, compared to<BR>
>the amount fighting everyone else?<BR>
<BR>
From memory, about 50-80%.  The war on the mainland started c. mid-30's and<BR>
tied up the bulk of the Japanese land forces.  I'll check the actual figures<BR>
tomorr^H^H^H, sheesh...it's today already! Time for bed,<BR>
<BR>
G'night Hoss!<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
Matthew Bond<BR>
mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk<BR>
www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/strom.html<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"To strike a man who insults you is one thing...<BR>
...To run him through with a sword is quite another!"<BR>
- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 13:59:00 +1000<BR>
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Violent Outlet (Was Re: A Day of Peace) #KEYBOARD ALERT!<BR>
<BR>
On Thursday, November 04, 1999 8:38 AM<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan said,<BR>
<BR>
>> And (for our British list members), "knock up" means "make pregnant"<BR>
>> and "fanny" is a synonym for "butt", not for "vagina".<BR>
>><BR>
>What does "knock up" mean in Britain?<BR>
<BR>
In Australia, to "knock up" something is to construct it in a quick and rough<BR>
manner.<BR>
For example, "I'm just going to knock up something for dinner".<BR>
<BR>
Funniest story I've heard of these things was when an Australian beer commercial<BR>
was first<BR>
seen in the USA. The beer is called XXXX (pronounced "four-ex"), which sounds<BR>
the same as a popular US brand of condom. The jingle ran:<BR>
<BR>
     I can feel a four-ex coming on,<BR>
     I can feel a four-ex coming on.<BR>
     Just can't wait for it,<BR>
     Got the TASTE for it,<BR>
     I can feel a four-ex coming on.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
OBTRAV: Local brand names across the Imperium might refer to completely<BR>
different products. Just imagine your PC's surprise when they open up a crate<BR>
and find something totally different to what they expected:<BR>
<BR>
"You know that crate of wine you've been keeping since you left Regina?"<BR>
"Yes, we're going to sell it when we get to Efate."<BR>
"Not unless they -like- liver pills."<BR>
Graeme<BR>
_______________________________________________<BR>
If at first you don't succeed, DON'T try Russian Roulette.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 19:16:40 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@aracnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dragon Magazine Archive<BR>
<BR>
> I just picked up the Dragon Magazine Archive, and I was wondering if any<BR>
<BR>
> Damn, having 250 issues of the Dragon is going to take up so much of my<BR>
> time.<BR>
<BR>
Huh?!?!  Um, pardon a stupid question, is this a CD-ROM, or what?  If it is<BR>
a CD-ROM is it Windows only?  Is this the _First_ 250 issues?  Also, how much?  <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> [Please, don't direct any flames my way for buying such a controversial<BR>
> product. The historical value was too great for me to pass up.]<BR>
<BR>
OK, now I'm even more confused, why is it controversial.  Sounds like an<BR>
interesting thing to get to me, wouldn't mind a archive of the other<BR>
magazine they had in the early 90's (Dungeon, IIRC) either.<BR>
<BR>
		Zane (who is feeling out of touch with the RPG world)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 22:38:57 -0500<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Diplomacy - I don't have any.... <BR>
<BR>
> >From: "Keven R. Pittsinger"<BR>
> <jamstar@accesstoledo.com><BR>
> <BR>
> [Doug Berry:]<BR>
> >> and B-52s ended the Vietnam war.. The more research<BR>
> >> I do, the less impressed I am with the Air Farces<BR>
> >>of the world.<BR>
> <BR>
> >The problem with B52s during the war was, they<BR>
> > carried old weapons, not the new improved 'smart' <BR>
> >weapons they keep touting these days.  At<BR>
> >cruising altitude, you couldn't hit the ground hardly<BR>
> >with those old WW2 era bombs<BR>
> <BR>
> Kevin, I think you've fallen victim to good marketing.<BR>
>  The vast majority of bombs dropped during the Gulf<BR>
> War were deadfall ordnance.  They just didn't put<BR>
> those on TV every night.<BR>
<BR>
I wasn't talking about the stuff they dropped during the Gulf, I was talking about stuff dropped in the late 60's up til '73.  I witnessed a few of those attacks.  Trust me, they didn't get within 600 yards of the target they were intended for.<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:01:14 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim data and CT LBB errata<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/4/99 9:04:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
willrichards@hotmail.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> I have that to but also in the same book....<BR>
>  B3 Second ed, page 7 Hydrographic Percentage (2D-7+atmosphere, if size 0 <BR>
>  then hydro of 0, if atmo 0,1,A+ then apply -4)<BR>
>  and then on page 12 is the of the same book is the refrence you made.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Since page 7 is backed up by multiple other scources I'd go with that.<BR>
<BR>
Except that the rule you cite makes less sense :-).  And the majority<BR>
of other citations of the rule use size code as the primary modifier.<BR>
<BR>
Heck, even the _Traveller Book_, which appears to be the source of<BR>
this misfeature, lists the rule as "2d - 7 + size" in the planet design<BR>
checklist, two pages after having it as "2d - 7 + atmosphere" in the<BR>
main text.<BR>
<BR>
TNE rules use the size code as primary modifier too.  I don't have<BR>
the appropriate material from MT or T4 any more.<BR>
<BR>
It's pretty clear that the rule as given in the TB main text is an erratum.  <BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:07:08 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Moslems in space...<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11/4/99 9:39:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, semo@pil.net <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Question: Does anybody know who the guy was who did the series of<BR>
>  proto-Cyberpunk books set in the Middle East? I can't remember his name, <BR>
but<BR>
>  I remember that a rather enjoyable computer game was based on his stuff.<BR>
<BR>
George Alec Effinger.  I think.<BR>
<BR>
Pretty good stories, too.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:07:53 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 5 Nov 1999, Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> A thought:  does anyone know much about the role the Chinese played in<BR>
> WWII?  How much of the Japanese military did they keep busy, compared to<BR>
> the amount fighting everyone else?  If you want a huge military force built<BR>
> on minimal resources, the Chinese might be the people to look at in this<BR>
> period.<BR>
<BR>
How much of the Japanese military was kept tied up in China, or rather how<BR>
important it was, is, I think, still debatable and highly politicized.<BR>
Numerically it was a pretty large number.  Comparing the Chinese<BR>
Nationalist and Communist war efforts would probably be interesting for<BR>
those who are interested in that sort of thing, but again, generates a lot<BR>
of partisan feeling.<BR>
<BR>
Why can't people just learn that history is about FACTS and not<BR>
"interpretation"?????<BR>
<BR>
> Another thought:  The second bloodiest war in history (after WWII) was the<BR>
> Taiping Rebellion in China in the 19th century.  (I've fouled up the<BR>
> Romanisation of "Taiping", of course).<BR>
<BR>
No, you haven't.  Please try harder!<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 19:39:43 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Glitches after maintenance<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> b. A really colorful mold with lots of smelly pores that drift in the wind<BR>
<BR>
For extra fun, have it closely resemble the picture of some really<BR>
*nasty* organism in the ship's database. Only a specialist (or a *very*<BR>
lucky PC) will find the picture of this *harmless* organism buried 12<BR>
(obscure) cross-references away. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 19:42:49 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] One Day In Peace<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>
> ...<BR>
>> This is the part of the argument I have never understood. I mean, isn't it<BR>
>> supposed to be "_organised_ militia"?? I mean, Switzerland has an organised<BR>
><BR>
> No.  It's a "well regulated" militia.  Militia, as defined by Webster's<BR>
> dictionary and US Law (10 USC 311, I believe) as any male of military<BR>
> service age.  Probably the phrase "well regulated" was intended to mean<BR>
> "well trained."<BR>
<BR>
Actually, it means something closer to "smoothly and reliably<BR>
functioning". As in a "well regulated clock". <BR>
<BR>
This exact argument came up recently in another group and apparently<BR>
"well regulated" is actually *in* several unabridged dictionaries. <BR>
<BR>
Just a reminder that looking up the individual words in a phrase is a<BR>
good way to get a wrong answer.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 20:00:31 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Diplomacy - I don't have any....<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard, it's not the fact that you responded, it's how you respond that I<BR>
> take exception too. You always speak down to people like you are the only<BR>
> one with intelligence on this list. It gets old. I've met plenty of people<BR>
> like you who have tons of book intelligence but can't walk through a doorway<BR>
> and chew gum at the same time. They ricochet off the doorframe because they<BR>
> are so locked in to what they are doing.<BR>
<BR>
We went thru this a few months back. I am *not* talking down. You are<BR>
reading that into my posts.I submit that you are being far too easily<BR>
annoyed. <BR>
<BR>
> Very smart, no common sense.... You have a very aggravating way of<BR>
> correcting people that you need to work on.  I'm having a bad month with<BR>
> tons of personal problems and when I try to do something nice I get hammered<BR>
> upside the head, I didn't need it and certainly didn't expect it.<BR>
<BR>
No. You *chose* to perceive a concerned warning as a put down. Don't<BR>
try to take your personal problems out on me and then try to blame me<BR>
for "provoking" you.<BR>
<BR>
> So please<BR>
> be more careful in the future when you are going to put somebody in their<BR>
> place, they might own an Uzi and work at the Post Office and be from your<BR>
> home town or something....<Not me, I'm a pacifist!><BR>
<BR>
I wasn't trying to put you in your place. I was AND STILL AM trying to<BR>
*warn* you about something that you may have overlooked. Something that<BR>
could cost you thousands of dollars.<BR>
<BR>
> I told you that it was free, if that's not good enough, fine don't ask for<BR>
> it.  But keep your mouth shut and don't call me a liar or go out of your way<BR>
> to make me feel stupid, I don't like it. I don't care how brilliant you are.<BR>
> BTW Leonard, I do think you are VERY VERY smart, I mean that, just not very<BR>
> wise.<BR>
<BR>
I did not call you a liar. I pointed out that *if* it was the package<BR>
from Avalon Hill, it was likely to be pirated. And that unless you got<BR>
the info saying it was "public domain" or "freeware" from the copyright<BR>
holder *not* from some web site (unless it *was* the copyright holder's<BR>
web site, which you did *not* state) you have *no* guarantee that it<BR>
really *was* ok to use. Presence of a forged "this is public domain"<BR>
statement in the archive containing the pirated software does *not*<BR>
protect you at all. People who believed such *have* been prosecuted for<BR>
illegally distributing copyrighted material. <BR>
<BR>
There's a large difference between pointing out that you may be<BR>
mistaken about the staus of the ganme and calling you a liar. <BR>
<BR>
If you actually *got* the game from a site run by the copyright holder,<BR>
all you had to do was *say* so. But without such a statement, the<BR>
*sensible* thing is too assume you got it elsewhere, and warn you that you<BR>
may have a time bomb on your hands. <BR>
<BR>
I'm not responsible for your misreading of what I wrote nor for any<BR>
motives you have read into it. My intent was to warn you that you might<BR>
have a problem. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:16:53 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Solomani Rim data and CT LBB errata<BR>
<BR>
Folks,<BR>
<BR>
Just out of curiosity I took my old copy of the Solomani Rim book and<BR>
decided to see if there were any obvious systematic anomalies in the UWP<BR>
data.  In particular, I compared the hydrographics codes to both the size<BR>
codes and the atmosphere codes, to see which one the author used as<BR>
the main modifier for hydrographics.<BR>
<BR>
It appears that the hydrographics codes are based on the world size, if only<BR>
because there are a fair number of "impossible" results if you assume that<BR>
they were based on atmosphere.  There are "impossible" results if you<BR>
assume they're based on size code, too -- but nowhere near as many. <BR>
Also, although I didn't do a formal statistical analysis, the distribution of<BR>
differences "size code - hydro code" appeared closer to the expected<BR>
normal curve than the distribution of "atmos code - hydro code." <BR>
<BR>
So what it looks like to me is, Mr. Harshman (or whoever) followed the<BR>
original Book 3 rules, *mostly*.  The places where those rules are violated<BR>
appear to have been deliberately chosen.  At least they are uncommon<BR>
enough that I think I can account for them when doing the capsule<BR>
writeups.<BR>
<BR>
I feel better now.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 15:39:43 +1100<BR>
From: "Robert O'Connor" <robocon@ozemail.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Moslems in space...<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote :-<BR>
> Question: Does anybody know who the guy was who did the series of<BR>
> proto-Cyberpunk books set in the Middle East?<BR>
<BR>
George Alec Effinger. IIRC :-<BR>
- - 'When Gravity Fails'<BR>
- - 'A Fire in the Sun'<BR>
- - 'The Exile Kiss'<BR>
<BR>
Robert O'Connor<BR>
Medico, Gamer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:51:15 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Dragon Magazine Archive<BR>
<BR>
From: Zane H. Healy <healyzh@aracnet.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Huh?!?!  Um, pardon a stupid question, is this a CD-ROM, or what?  If it is<BR>
>a CD-ROM is it Windows only?  Is this the _First_ 250 issues?  Also, how<BR>
much?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Yes. The first 250 issues on 5 CDs, plus all 7 issues of The Strategic<BR>
Review. These magazines are *in their entirety*, and I mean that. It's got<BR>
every single comic, game insert, illustration and advertisement in there.<BR>
<BR>
I got it for $44.99 + tax (American), and IMHO it's well worth every penny<BR>
of it so far.<BR>
<BR>
Compatibility (from the back of the box): "The Dragon Magazine Archive is<BR>
partially Macintosh compatible: Our proprietary browser is PC compatible,<BR>
but all files are in PDF format, and can be read with Adobe Acrobat Reader."<BR>
<BR>
>OK, now I'm even more confused, why is it controversial.  Sounds like an<BR>
>interesting thing to get to me, wouldn't mind a archive of the other<BR>
>magazine they had in the early 90's (Dungeon, IIRC) either.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
TSR had been talking about releasing the archive for some time. However, one<BR>
of the big problems concerned reprinting rights for the articles, covers,<BR>
comics, etc. The contract that they have people sign doesn't (or didn't?)<BR>
cover reprint rights. There's apparently a law that allows publishers to<BR>
create "archives" and skip around such contracts. TSR went with that<BR>
option... and, well, as a result I've got 250 issues of dragon sitting on<BR>
top of my CPU tower.<BR>
<BR>
Some people were mad because the intent of the law in question was to<BR>
provide a way for publishers to make archives available in low-print "public<BR>
good" runs (for libraries and such places). TSR was very clear that this was<BR>
to be a mass-market commercial product. The catch is that in order to be<BR>
covered by this law, they had to include every issue they were *in its<BR>
entirety.* You get all of the Play By Mail ads, all of the Dragonbone ads,<BR>
all of the miniatures ads. In other words, there's real interest for general<BR>
RPG history geeks as well.<BR>
<BR>
If the Dragon archive succeeds, one for Dungeon magazine can't be too far<BR>
behind.<BR>
<BR>
> Zane (who is feeling out of touch with the RPG world)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Well, now you're back in touch!<BR>
<BR>
If anyone's interested Warner / EC has released the Complete Mad Magazine on<BR>
CD as well. I'm salivating as we speak... that's one for my Christmas wish<BR>
list. ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:54:18 -0500<BR>
From: "Sword Worlder" <swordworlder@clinic.net><BR>
Subject: Re: A Well-Regulated Militia (new thread title)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Kelly St.Clair <kellys@efn.org><BR>
> For obvious reasons, this interpretation is not appreciated by those who<BR>
> are currently in charge, but it's very popular among the various<BR>
"militias"<BR>
> with an axe to grind about the gummint.  Also, the balance has changed a<BR>
> bit:  no longer can you count on both sides having the same kind of<BR>
weapons...<BR>
<BR>
I doubt that the general populace had canon or warships or heavy cavalry.<BR>
Citizens who have the right to own weapons of whatever type they see fit is<BR>
just another of the many checks and balances in the system.  It should serve<BR>
to keep the size of government down.  If people have the right and the means<BR>
to defend themselves against any threat then the government will have less<BR>
need to protect them against those threats.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:59:31 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: George Alec Effinger<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for the response, Jon and Robert (and anyone who responds after I go<BR>
to bed). I remember playing the computer game and wanting to check out that<BR>
fellow's books, but I never got around to it. That game set me off on an<BR>
"Arabic Traveller" binge. I'll have to track down the books.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:42:15 -0600<BR>
From: "Chad Russell" <mindbreaker@unforgettable.com><BR>
Subject: Errata in CT<BR>
<BR>
Joseph R. Dietrich writes <tongue in cheek>:<BR>
<BR>
> Errors in the Good Book! Oy vey! What of holy canon! What of rules! Indeed,<BR>
> the whole framework of my existence is shaken. Woe is me.<BR>
<BR>
It's worse that that. [Is anyone surprised?]  Somehow an apparent typo<BR>
crept into later editions of Book 2 on the Drive Potential Table.  Early<BR>
print runs show drives Z produce only performance level 5 in 2000-ton<BR>
hulls, a consistent interpolation with the rest of the table.  However,<BR>
somewhere along the way to later print runs, this got inexplicably bumped<BR>
up to an incongruous performance level 6 in 2000-ton hulls, a striking<BR>
discontinuity from the level 4 performance drives Y yield, and a notable<BR>
anomaly in the mathematical progressions of the overall table.<BR>
<BR>
This presumed typo then persisted on into every printing of the BBL I've<BR>
ever seen.<BR>
<BR>
Then, just to thoroughly immortalize it all, The Traveller Adventure<BR>
introduces the Imperiallines TI/TJ class, built to Book 2 specs, and<BR>
relying on the unusually-high drive performance available to 2000-ton hulls<BR>
as a result of the long-overlooked typo to set a particularly significant<BR>
bit of canon, namely the "alternative" to the X-Boat system.<BR>
<BR>
Note that the TIs [and hence, de facto, the TJs] are now established as<BR>
canonical in CT, G:T, and TNE, and possibly other milieux I haven't noticed<BR>
them in yet.<BR>
<BR>
Gotta love it... ;)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Chad Russell<BR>
This is not a .sig<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 00:58:05 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Was something or other now Language!<BR>
<BR>
"Hughes, Michael" <Michael.Hughes@cbr.defence.gov.au> typed:<BR>
<BR>
>It made that line from the Nanny 'and she fell on her fanny...' particularly<BR>
>amusing to us queen's English folks.<BR>
<BR>
 Not to mention the three movies about the killer whale...<BR>
<BR>
"Excuse me, is this the line for Free Willy?"<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 23:59:52 -0600<BR>
From: "David Reed" <david.reed@xolutions.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space (Was: Re: [OT] Cultural Differences)<BR>
<BR>
Black ICE [wombat@premier.net] wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Muslims who would undertake such would know that God (Allah) would<BR>
> accept the intent, and not expect _perfect_ precision in directing<BR>
> prayer to Mecca.<BR>
<BR>
Correct, to a point.  Although each person varies in his or her capacities,<BR>
even beginning to attempt such a determination may be beyond most 3I era<BR>
Muslims.  You are correct that one's intention is the most pertinent aspect<BR>
of any action ~ not necessarily just the intent to face the appropriate<BR>
direction when beginning prayer, but the intention to please Allah by<BR>
keeping the prayers in the first place.  Each believer would likely rise to<BR>
his or her own level of accuracy, just as they do now.<BR>
<BR>
> I would expect that recycled water would not be considered kosher,<BR>
<BR>
I might have to disagree, but neither would I consider myself of an<BR>
extremely strict orthodoxy.  Once anything has been rendered into its<BR>
components elements and remade into a new form, I would posit that most<BR>
"modern" Muslims would accept it as halal; I would.  If not, then one should<BR>
not drink from a well, or even be able to eat anything that hadn't been<BR>
touched in even some remote fashion by things haram.  There are things in<BR>
the water table that make me shudder to think... and I don't mean just the<BR>
fluoride.  I can't speak for Judaism, though.<BR>
<BR>
> As to how one determines the Islamic calendar dates while outside the<BR>
> Solar system, I would expect that, within sight of Sol and her planets<BR>
> (in M:1100, that could be quite some distance), direct observation of<BR>
> Sol, Terra, and Luna, plus calculation of light's travel time from Sol<BR>
> to the point of observation, would fulfill the requirement for "direct<BR>
> observation" of the new moon.<BR>
<BR>
I would suspect that 3I Muslims would have to follow their own local lunar<BR>
calendar for most things other than keeping track of comparable dates to<BR>
discuss intelligently with others.  There is much discord amongst the Ummah<BR>
about "which moon" to follow even today for determining events, such as Eid.<BR>
There are hadith, IMO, that rule on the subject which state clearly that one<BR>
should follow the sightings of the moon in one's own city or region, *not*<BR>
the sightings of the moon elsewhere.  I suppose it would be an interesting<BR>
debate, though, would it not?<BR>
<BR>
This, of course, becomes difficult on a moonless sphere, just as prayer time<BR>
calculation becomes very burdensome close to the poles of Terra.  I've<BR>
pondered it myself, but have sought no scholar's futwa on the topic yet.  :)<BR>
If/when I ever do, I'll be sure to share with the list.  I suspect that the<BR>
now-common, though in-authentic, practice of following the sightings of the<BR>
moon in Mecca or Medina might gain even wider acceptance, although<BR>
time/distance will make even that more nigh impossible.<BR>
<BR>
> Besides, at least some Islamic rules (such as daytime fasting during<BR>
> Ramadan) are relaxed for those who are traveling, especially when<BR>
> travelling in service to the Islamic faith.<BR>
<BR>
Traveling is a relative thing...  If you live aboard a starship for most (or<BR>
all) of your life, are you still traveling?  I don't think so, but we all<BR>
seek our own excuses in life.  ;)  But, yes, there are many issues with<BR>
which to grapple and study on when we attain the stars.<BR>
<BR>
> Of course, the _real_ problem, for Muslims in the 3I (especially prior<BR>
> to the Solomani Rim War), is the requirement for pilgrimage to Mecca<BR>
> (Al-Haj).  Even after Terra falls to Imperial forces, travel to Mecca,<BR>
<BR>
Hajj is incumbent only upon those to whom it presents no arduous hardship.<BR>
There are many today that make Hajj every year, and sometimes Umra as well,<BR>
but I would suspect that barring splinter sects which seek to establish a<BR>
false Mecca elsewhere (as mentioned in another post), the Hajjis from beyond<BR>
the Sol system would be few, and from beyond the Solomani Rim even fewer.<BR>
IME, it's unfortunately not necessarily the most pious who make the journey,<BR>
but all too often those who wish to be seen as such and have sufficient<BR>
capital to do so.<BR>
<BR>
It's always nice to meet someone who is conversant in a belief not<BR>
necessarily their own.  Well met, Black ICE.<BR>
<BR>
// David Reed ~ david.reed@xolutions.net<BR>
<BR>
# Forgive thine enemies...<BR>
#     ... and then reload.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 20:19:21 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Violent Outlet (Was Re: A Day of Peace)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Wed, 3 Nov 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> In the US, napkins are the things you wipe your hands and face with<BR>
>> (aka serviettes(sp)). Diapers are what you put on a baby's bottom.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> And (for our British list members), "knock up" means "make pregnant"<BR>
>> and "fanny" is a synonym for "butt", not for "vagina".<BR>
>> <BR>
> What does "knock up" mean in Britain?<BR>
<BR>
In Britian, a friend might remark, "Ok, I'll come by tomorrow and knock<BR>
you up and then we'll go on that shopping trip."<BR>
<BR>
What he means is that he'll drop by and knock on your door.<BR>
<BR>
> My favorite British English story is about how my ex-husband, who came to<BR>
> the US from Hong Kong at age 14 to go to boarding school, almost got<BR>
> punched out by an American girl in his class when he asked her if she had<BR>
> a rubber he could use.  (HK people use British English; "rubber" there is<BR>
> "eraser" here.  "Rubber" here is "condom.")<BR>
<BR>
But "rubbers" can be waterproof shoe covers, even in the US.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 21:00:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Common Weaponry (was RE: [OT] One Day In Peace)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Mark Urbin posted:<BR>
>><BR>
>>As the nice man said in Spinal Tap, "Sometimes it's just handy to have a <BR>
>>solid piece of wood about."   Ok, so it's not a direct quote, but you get <BR>
>>the idea...<BR>
><BR>
> Miyamoto Musashi would agree with you. <BR>
><BR>
> However, the most common and easily accessible weapon in the universe is a<BR>
> rock. (Recommended by 9 out 10 Aslan in comfy shoes).<BR>
<BR>
No, the most common weapon is your own body. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 21:01:36 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Common Weaponry (was RE: [OT] One Day In Peace)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> (I know it's a Robin Williams quote-- but *I* wear comfortable shoes and<BR>
> I'm not a lesbian!  "Hiroshi am I a lesbian?"  "Not the last time I<BR>
> checked, should I check again?"  "Sure!")<BR>
<BR>
Well, have you ever lived on the Isle of Lesbos? <BR>
<BR>
Oooooh! <BR>
<BR>
I just had an evil thought. A planet named Lesbos. And the reactions of<BR>
characters to encountering someone from there. "Hi, My name is Mark.<BR>
I'm a Lesbian."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 21:34:54 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Border Guards<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> In H. Beam Piper's universe ('Little Fuzzy', 'Uller Uprising', et.<BR>
> al.), there was a machine called the veridicator, which was part of<BR>
> every police interrogation as well as being installed in every<BR>
> courtroom to determine the truth.  As long as the globe showed red,<BR>
> you were telling the truth *as you knew it*.  The instant it started<BR>
> turning blue, you were in deep kimchee...<BR>
<BR>
Yeahg, part of every use included asking a set of test questions,<BR>
including some that you were supposed to lie in answer to.<BR>
<BR>
If they globe *didn't* turn red during the lies, you were a pathological<BR>
liar and the veridicator couldn't be used on you. But such folks are a<BR>
minority. They also tend to be rather careless, so getting other<BR>
evidence (if they are guilty) isn't too hard.<BR>
<BR>
> Piper's writings on colonial laws was fairly interesting as well.  In <BR>
> 'Little Fuzzy', one guy remarked that they could only execute him once, and <BR>
> the other guy said, 'Well in <legal cite that escapes me at the moment>, <BR>
> they shot the guy dead, *then* hung him'.  Interesting...<BR>
<BR>
I don't recall *that* one, but I do recall the cite where they tried a<BR>
dead man for sabotage.<BR>
<BR>
And for that matter, I heard of a case in the US (not sure if it is<BR>
real) where a politician was convicted of receiving a bribe from X, but<BR>
X was acquitted of *paying* the bribe. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1310<BR>
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